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 Mercedes 300 SL gullwing replica/KIt
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dan2


54 Posts
Posted - August 11 2011 :  08:49:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
isnt any body interested in the gullwing anymore.what happened to krazyone,gullwing,jerry,etc.etc.

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Dave Wolin


37 Posts
Posted - August 12 2011 :  11:06:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Seen my 300SL on Hemmings ?

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/mercedes_benz/300sl/1264402.html

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jaysherman


139 Posts
Posted - August 14 2011 :  02:28:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jerry should be driving his now, Greg and mine are both in storage as we are out of the Country. Fred sold his on Ebay recently and another body was was also just on ebay. I am not aware of anyone making a kit now.

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dan2


54 Posts
Posted - August 16 2011 :  08:43:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
jerry;what radiator are you using?im having a heating problim w/mine .im using a mechanical fan.

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jaysherman


139 Posts
Posted - August 17 2011 :  04:39:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am not sure what Jerry is running, I will look through a few pics I have and see what he did. I have a twin electric aluminum shroud (a shroud is a must)and plan on running twin elec fans with a auto kick temp sensor and ac. Check summit or other dealers for a enclosure for a single or dual elec fan setup. Send me an email if you need more info. i can call you from over seas on voip....Jay

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dan2


54 Posts
Posted - August 18 2011 :  08:09:29 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i had baffles put in rad.hopeing this will solve the problem if not i will add a electri fan.i will post later to let you know if this corrected the problem

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dan2


54 Posts
Posted - August 18 2011 :  4:08:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the baffles helped i im going to install electric fan also for a little more cooling around town.any went to C H P and got my vin #.now its to the referee on the 23rd for smog check.i will keep everybody posted

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dan2


54 Posts
Posted - August 24 2011 :  08:09:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the electric fan helped out quit a lot.went to referee and got my smog cert.one more stop at light/brake then its back to dmv for my plates

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gullwing

New Zealand
150 Posts
Posted - December 01 2011 :  05:30:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I moved to New Zealand 2 years ago and my Gullwing has been in storage. Last week I finally arranged to have it shipped to my new home. So I am real excited!
So yeah I havn't been able to do much more on my car. When I left it I was getting ready to fire up the engine but sidetracked myself by working on the dashboard. I was not impressed with the quality of fit and finish of the dash provided by Gil. So I made a light aluminum frame similar to original (except it bolts in and out) Then made a mold for a very original fiberglass dash. The only exception is to add very descrete air conditioning vent louvers at the lower edge.
I have also been able to buy a few original 300SL parts that are so seldom available. I was able to find an original vent window hinge, the rear latch for the side window, the heater controls, ash tray and several original VDO guages.
I have a complete set of modern electronic guages. They are great. The original VDO gauges used analog guages for speedometer, tachometer and oil pressure. So that is somewhat of a pain. I will try to copy the face of the original VDO guages and put it on my gauges. Still need a speedometer to copy though.
I have found a friend in New Zealand who builds carbon fiber boats. He has agreed to help me makes some carbon fiber doors moulded from my chop-gun made fiberglass doors. One thing that became apparent is that the doors absolutely need to be rigid to work right. Problem is that the stiffer the doors then the heavier they are. Hand layup fiberglass doors get to a weight that they are almost too heavy for the door springs. The chop-gun doors are too heavy, too flimsy. So if I have to make door moulds then make new doors then I will use carbon fiber, epoxy resin and some hex-cell filler. The doors WILL be strong and WILL be light and I will be using original glass not lexan.

Greg

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gullwing

New Zealand
150 Posts
Posted - December 03 2011 :  12:34:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

original dash

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gullwing

New Zealand
150 Posts
Posted - December 03 2011 :  1:23:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

This is my gold standard! The dash from the GMBH replica
Note the 3 LEDs in the speedomter. Also all of the indicator lights are the same size which looks better then the original. Don't you think the high beam indicator should be blue? The hole in the dash is different as well.

Apparently working with a bigger budget than me. The steering wheel sells for about $2,000. The steering wheel center cap for ~$600. You can use the 190SL cap which sells for ~$250 but it doesn't have a chrom rim. The guilloche plate is ~$3,000 ouch!!


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gullwing

New Zealand
150 Posts
Posted - December 03 2011 :  1:42:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

This is my dash. The guages are from vintage guage. I think they look good but I will change the face a indicator needles. I have a black plastic know on the headlight switch. I will have to locate 2 chrome ones. I don't have the guilloche plate but in my opinion a piece of turned stainless looks nicer anyway. Note the non-original vent louvres on the bottom.

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Coolvet

Australia
37 Posts
Posted - December 10 2011 :  4:46:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone know of a 300sl roadster kit that can be purchased and fitted to a late model Mecededes SLK? I don't want to get involved in a major project like building a gullwing but I really like the idea of using an existing SLK55 and fitting front and rear fenders, hood, trunk, bumpers, chrome work etc from a 300sl to the slk.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Carey

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gullwing

New Zealand
150 Posts
Posted - December 18 2011 :  9:55:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Scheib company in Germany makes a roadster replica built upon a SLK donor but as far as I know it is not sold in a kit form. Lonestar in Texas makes a 300SL roadster replica as well. No kit though.

Greg

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beiland

USA
45 Posts
Posted - January 23 2012 :  03:22:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

I moved to New Zealand 2 years ago and my Gullwing has been in storage. Last week I finally arranged to have it shipped to my new home. So I am real excited!
Greg

I've just been reading thru this subject thread today and haven't finished yet.

My interest in the 300 Gullwing stretches back MANY years...almost bought a wonderfull original back in the 70's, but didn't have a place to keep it at the time,...and was too much on-the-run around the world at the time.
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/83490-post49.html

In the mid/late 90's worked out of Singapore and was thinking of trying to get involved in alternative-fueled vehicle development in SE Asia. More particular I was very interested in that Chrysler project to put a flywheel-powered car into the Le Mans race.
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/technical-discussion/13441-flywheel-energy-storage-systems.html

One of my thoughts at that time was if you really wanted to promote this alternative-fuel tech here in SE Asia, why not put such a power plant into a replica 300 Gullwing,....particularly since the highest per-capta ownnership of MB is in Singapore.
Flywheel and Electric Pkg in 300 SL gullwing
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/83550-post56.html

So I am now living part time in Thailand and the thought of a replica 300 Gullwing has entered my mind again. i know of a few fiberglass boatbuilder here that could produce the bodies. Just wondering about what sort of list for the most difficult parts are to get for a kit gullwing project??...I know i have heard glass is one, but I'm betting that with all of the huge amount of car building here in Thailand, that somewhere it could be built right here?

....first posting, so I'll stop here
regards, Brian

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beiland

USA
45 Posts
Posted - January 23 2012 :  03:52:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
It would seem that there should be a way of creating the molds and tooling for the various Gullwing specific parts (glass, brightwork, switches, etc) so that, as with the Ostermeyer cars, the parts are interchangeable with the real cars. While expensive to do, one would certainly have more of a market than just the kit builders to recoup costs.

I wonder if that is possible here in Thailand?

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beiland

USA
45 Posts
Posted - January 23 2012 :  04:04:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

As I have been working on my kit for about 18 months now let me give you some observations. Although it might seem to be the hardest part the frame and body are actually the easiest part. You do need a donor Gullwing and it is a lot of hard work but once done you can sell a frame and body for about $20,000. The truly difficult part is all of the specialized Gullwing parts. Where will you get the glass? Neomoeller's or Mercedes Resource Center will supply this but the price is huge. Say $5,000 for a windshield. There are 8 pieces of glass to buy. You can not make the glass yourself so you either pay huge amounts of money, make them out of Lexan or contract to have a run of original glass made. Tony Ostermeir had Pilkington glass make a run. I don't know the particulars but I think it was 100 sets (minimum). Tony bought 30 sets which he used and Pilkington sat on the rest. They stored them for 10 years then trashed most of them as they were simply in the way and did not sell.
The rear bumpers- Toney had them made in Taiwan or somewhere. There are something like 5 pieces. So he probably had $20,000 tied up in the molds. The list goes on and on. If you think you can make 100 rear bumpers and re-coupe your cost MAYBE. You would need a market though. The 1,200 original Gullwings out there mostly have bumpers or they will pay Meercedes Resource Center to build them a certified exact replacement for $10,000. So you need a growing kit car market to create a demand. The kit car market is stymied by the lack of good quality replacement parts for at a reasonable price. So, it is a catch 22. If several people jumped into the buisness then in my humble opinion the Gullwing could be as popular as the Cobra. You can build a nice Cobra for $25-30K. At this time I doubt that you could build a nice Gullwing for $60K.
I have spoken with Hermann Quint many times. He was able to do it. His car were beautiful. What many of you don't know is that he made almost 30 and that they evolved over the years. They started out as cut down Corvettes. Later he used Mercedes V-8 drive trains on a custom frame. They looked gorgeous no question about it. But exact replicas they weren't. Can you tell me what rear windows he used or what side window? I know and he was quite ingenious. Did you know that the vent window gasket is available from Mercedes but cost $900 each! Most of us cant afford that.
As far as the orignal valve train?Does a modern Mercedes V-8 sound even remotely like a straight 6 mechanically fuel injected 198 engine? The closest engine I could thing would be a early jag straight six or a 240Z. I have seen Chrysler slant six used used. Does anyon think these look, sound or drive like an OHC Mercedes motor? Most if not all of Hermans cars were automatic transmission.It is apparently what sells best. Not my cup of tea.

Toney's parts are tied up in bancruptcy (again) this time in the island of Jersey off the English coast. So we can't expect much help there.
The Mazza Brothers, God bless them, have great intentions and I am sure are honorable people. However they are still bogged down in the body/frame part of the build. I have not heard what they intend to do for door latches, door hinges, trunk latches, grills, side molding, dash molding etc., etc. Their web sight is truly impressive. They make it clear that they are building their first wo cars now however it isn't apparent to the viewer which photos theyy are showing are from an original Gullwing and which are from someone elses reproduction.
Yes there are a few 190SL parts that can be used. I have a list for anyone interested. A good quality 190SL grill goes for $2,000 but at 20 feet you can tell it is not from a 300SL. That is but one example.

In order for someone to succed in the Gullwing replica buisness they will need a lot of financing and a really well thought out buisness plan. Even Tony Ostermeir despite his long success ran out of capital at some point.Starting out with a kit car would allow you to recoupe some of your investment as you went along. The only person doing that is Gil Lonecker. He unfortunately is undercapitalized and I would not even want to comment on his buisness plan on a public forum. He has however succeeded in destroying any credibility he has which I find terribly sad.

Greg



Interesting posting Greg....and a lot of truism. I just had to bring it forward in the forums.

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beiland

USA
45 Posts
Posted - January 23 2012 :  04:32:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Here are Als pics.....









I'm still had trouble accessing these images?...what am I doing wrong?
Can't the photos be displayed on this forum, or do you have to go offsight?

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beiland

USA
45 Posts
Posted - January 23 2012 :  04:47:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

not in germany, that was just a goof. i'm in connecticut, lol. at this point i don't think i want to go the route in selling turnkey cars. at least not at this point in time. i really want this to be a quality kit. it's very labor intensive at this point getting the body perfect, so when i make kits it will fit together. i'm preparing the body so all the gaps will be perfect and i'm not thinking of selling you a kit all in pieces. all the body pannels such as doors hood trunk are inner and outer pieces. i want to laminate and possibly pre-hang the doors trunk and hood. so that i know when you get it, there is nothing that can come back and bite me in the butt. i really want people to be able to finnish it once they get it. that is the most important thing! it really is about quality not quantity.


Can you send me photos, and latest details on your project, directly to my email? If so I'll send it to you.
regards, Brian

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beiland

USA
45 Posts
Posted - January 23 2012 :  04:54:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Hi All you guys out there,

I CAN solve the mystery of the "Gullwing" project - it is now installed in an auto complex in Germany and being readied to be put back into production - both Gullwing and Roadster. All of the parts, tooling, part built cars, etc.,etc. have now been unpacked, sorted, logged and readied for production. The company involved have had a long and enviable history in the replica car industry [ 25 years ] and are one of Germany's major current manufacturers.

They have recently moved to a 5 acres site with all facilities on site to produce cars.

Go to www.gullwing.ch for more details. The site is available in both German and English.
Manfred von Heyda



Appears as though this outfit is no longer in production....their website is for sale??

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beiland

USA
45 Posts
Posted - January 23 2012 :  06:22:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
We raised the height of the windshield to accomodate taller drivers. As you probably know, anyone over 5'10" tall had limited ability to see stop lights in an original car. Our goal was to produce an iminately drivable "modern" replica of the original car and not a "recreation". The headlight trim rings are a reproduction, though not VW.
Ron Clark
Production Foreman
Speedster Motorcars
10990 49th St. N.
Clearwater, FL 33762


I'm having problems finding photos of your Gullwing cars? Can you direct me to a specific location?

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beiland

USA
45 Posts
Posted - January 23 2012 :  07:18:15 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here are a few other photos I had posted,...some SLR ones as well

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/yachtforums-yacht-club/11874-anyone-here-own-any-exotic-cars-4.html

Reading thru this subject thread today has been fun and informative on the subject of kit-car Gullwings

Cheers, Brian

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beiland

USA
45 Posts
Posted - January 30 2012 :  07:17:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is everybody that contributed to this subject thread gone?? I haven't received one posted reply to the entries I made?

Hey Manfred von Heyda, are you guys still building 300 Mercedes?

How about the Mazza bros? I believe they were having real financial difficulties, but have they totally abandoned their project,...and the molds, etc.

How about the fellow fron Conn,...Krazeyone was it?


quote:

quote:

Hi All you guys out there,

I CAN solve the mystery of the "Gullwing" project - it is now installed in an auto complex in Germany and being readied to be put back into production - both Gullwing and Roadster. All of the parts, tooling, part built cars, etc.,etc. have now been unpacked, sorted, logged and readied for production. The company involved have had a long and enviable history in the replica car industry [ 25 years ] and are one of Germany's major current manufacturers.

They have recently moved to a 5 acres site with all facilities on site to produce cars.

Go to www.gullwing.ch for more details. The site is available in both German and English.
Manfred von Heyda



Appears as though this outfit is no longer in production....their website is for sale??



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krazeyone

USA
101 Posts
Posted - January 30 2012 :  09:40:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Still here, reading every post. I know the difficulty of the other people, getting everything to make a replica. I think there is a difference between a replica and a kit car, big difference. Everybody has seen those ugly so called lamborghinis. You can tell from 100 yards there is just something not so rite about it. Than there are the other ones that you have to look and see up close to see if it is real. To me thats the difference. The gullwing project I was working on is not dead, it is just sleeping, and will get back on the front burner sooner than later. I believe there will always be a market for these cars as long as it is done correctly, you can't get good money for an ugly gullwing, it has to be perfect or it will not work. I believe it has to be a replica and not a kit car.

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arnahtucker

USA
37 Posts
Posted - January 31 2012 :  6:08:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is really expensive.

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gullwing

New Zealand
150 Posts
Posted - February 01 2012 :  02:26:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The purpose of a kit car is to get the price in a range where mere mortals can afford. I think $50,000-$75,000 is close to what it would cost to do. If done right you can upgrade as your budget allows if you do it right. An example of that would be my dashboard. You can see the areas that can be upgraded to make it more exact. I saved $2,000 by not using a front bumper. I can add that latter. I saved $5,000 by using a VW bumber in the rear. If I did not meantion it no one (except krazyone) could tell. Like I said I can always uprade these items later as money becomes available. My opinion is that Speedway Motorcars did it wrong. They changed the original lines of the car so the car would fit the glass. Then they had a car that was well built but couldn't sell for $75,000. What a shame. An exact replica such as an Ostermeir or Quint would have to cost in excess of $125,000. I was really impressed by the recent Gmb replica out of Germany however what happened to them? Never quoted a price either. I am thinking it must have cost over $175,00 to build. A great MB V12 engine would cost about $5,000. That is only about $3,000 more than a plain vanilla American V-8. You can change the engine later. That too is easy. I have a plain ivory phenolic steering wheel ~$400 versus the wood Moto-lita at $2,000.

Greg
ace1926@gmail.com

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Folke

Sweden
40 Posts
Posted - February 12 2012 :  09:31:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello,
I bought my windshield from Classic Autoglas in Köln, Germany for $500. It was made by Pilkington in the UK. www.classic-autoglas.com
The rear window is another matter - it's very hard to come by. I bought a used one from HK Engineering in Germany for $1500. New ones are not available according to Mercedes Classic Center. I bought grill and front bumper from Harrington Group(Vietnam). www.groupharrington.com They were made from highly polished stainless steel, have a perfect fit and look very good.
Good Luck
Folke

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gullwing

New Zealand
150 Posts
Posted - February 15 2012 :  05:43:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, for quite some time Pilkington sold the windshields. They were nice but they were thicker? (or thinner?) then original which meant that the original gasket would not fit. Also they came tinted and untinted whereas the other glass was only available untinted. I guess that is all a moot point now as I think Pilkington is out of all 300SL glass. I bought the last complete set from them. The vent windows have the holes in them for the correct original hinges which is an issue if you mount them any other way. So the easiest solution is both vent and side window out of plexi. You can use a VW Super Beetle rear window. It fits well and you would think it correct if you didn't know. It has a concave lower edge whereas the original is convex. It has the added advantage of a heating element.

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jaysherman


139 Posts
Posted - March 03 2012 :  10:26:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thought I would chime in...My Gullwing is in storage and on the back burner but still have it. Staying in Thailand now but will be back in the States around May.

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jaysherman


139 Posts
Posted - March 31 2012 :  04:07:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.mercedesheritage.com/2012/mercedes-benz-crushes-unlawlful-gullwing-replica/

Mercedes-Benz crushes ‘unlawlful’ Gullwing replica

March 29th, 2012

Tags: mercedes classic center, michael bock, replicas, silver arrows, tom wheatcroft, tony dron, w125

Is this the moment of truth in a Gullwing restoration when the body is once again joined to its chassis? Not quite. We're looking at the bowels of the Mercedes-Benz Used Parts Center and this particular Gullwing body is being crudely removed from its chassis to be crushed and disposed of.

Mercedes-Benz steps up pressure on replicas
Gullwing design copyright status affirmed in Germany

Ever mindful of the impact of poorly conceived replica Gullwings on its heritage brand, Mercedes-Benz recently seized and destroyed a German built Gullwing replica’s fiberglass body. For decades the Silver Star has viewed any road going copy of the iconic Gullwing shape with derision, particularly those with badging as per the original. During the ’80s Tony Ostermeier’s generally respected Gullwing Cars operation in California skirted the badging issue by delivering their replicas with altered grille/deck lid star designs and no ‘Mercedes-Benz’ or ’300SL’ insignias. Predictably, as soon as new owners took delivery of their cars, an original grille star and original insignias were installed. Other replicas employed similar trickery to avoid attention from Stuttgart.

This will no longer be tolerated by Mercedes-Benz. Badging or no, the glorious Gullwing shape is a work of ‘applied art’ and has been under copyright protection for decades. It’s the enforcement that has been spotty. That is, until 2012. Emboldened by a December 2010 Stuttgart regional court’s ruling affirming the Gullwing design’s copyright status, Mercedes stepped up investigating copyright violations. It is not legal to copy the Gullwing design – at least not in Germany. Gullwing AG, a German firm which planned to introduce a new Gullwing using the original Ostermeier plans and fitted with modern drivetrain, was shut down shortly after the court ruling.

“However, as well as the creators of this vehicle copying our parts and designs, the use of the Mercedes-Benz name and logo is in clear contravention of our trademark rights and we will look seriously at this.”

Unlucky German replica owner

Daimler Media’s release outlines Mercedes-Benz’ attitude succinctly, “A case had arisen in which a company based in Germany had built an unlawful replica of a Mercedes-Benz 300 SL.” The replica was seized by German Customs officials which may indicate the car was being processed for export. While the entire experience had to be a nightmare for the owner, he/she likely did receive the rolling chassis back after its illicit body was unceremoniously removed and crushed. The issue involved the coachwork only. Case closed for this particular replica.

The offending fiberglass skin awaits destruction. We're not sure who built this car but will try to find out. A serious precedent has now been set in Germany which will undoubtedly send other such replicas, regardless of quality, into hiding.

This photo makes a strong statement indeed. The offending body has been officially destroyed by 'certified equipment' and officially documented with a signed and stamped 'confirmation of scrappage.'

Wheatcroft W125 Recreations
Mercedes-Benz Classic speaks out

Stuttgart’s attitude toward protecting its cherished Gullwing shape is now clear but how will the Factory react to the specter of not one but five EXACT duplicates (4 open wheel versions and one streamliner) of the epic 595hp 1937 W125 Grand Prix car? Two have been completed and one was featured in a massive article within the February 2012 issue of the superb Octane Magazine. The brainchild of the now deceased historic Grand Prix disciple, Tom Wheatcroft, this project began in 2003 and has VERY quietly yielded two cars. Wheatcroft’s plan was to amortize costs by building five, selling 4 and placing the remaining car in his extraordinary Donington Park Racing Car Museum located within England’s Donington Park racing circuit.

With Wheatcoft senior’s death, son Kevin stepped in enthusiastically and kept the project moving ahead, utilizing the best fabrication shops in the world that conveniently happen to be located in England. This program is producing not just ‘replicas’ but, according to reports, DUPLICATES of the original car. How is this possible? The team’s mysterious acquisition of 2,500(!) original drawings and access to two of the original cars that escaped the factory into private hands has insured a mind bending level of accuracy. We must credit the extraordinary fabrication and research skills of Crosthwiate & Gardener and master coachwork fabricator Roach Manufacturing as well.

Mercedes-Benz Museum CEO comments

How does Mercedes-Benz feel about this project which comes to fruition the same year it decides to actually race it’s W125 in selected top tier historic events? Michael Bock, CEO of Mercedes-Benz Museum GmbH and Head of Mercedes-Benz Classic, responded with a tactful but revealing statement also in Octane’s Februry issue, “The Mercedes-Benz w 125 is an iconic racing car, and whilst we can see the logic in companies recreating those cars lost forever, like the Auto Unions and Von Trips’ ‘Sharknose’ *******, there’s no justification to create a facsimile of the real deal, especially when these cars are still regularly shown.” Bock continued by citing trademark issues, “However, as well as the creators of this vehicle copying our parts and designs, the use of the Mercedes-Benz name and logo is in clear contravention of our trademark rights and we will look seriously at this.”

Mr. Bock closes with, “We support – at any time – all collectors of original Mercedes-Benz cars with all the passion, experience and knowledge we have but we have no understanding (tolerance? ed.) for facsimiles of the real deal.” Strong if slightly veiled words. We have a feeling none of Wheatcroft’s W125s will see German soil anytime soon. This fascinating saga centering around the passion for and protection of two of Mercedes-Benz’ most enduring and cherished sporting creations is certainly going to evolve. I feel there will be more confrontations ahead.

Advertisement

Kevin Wheatcroft lives the dream of any pre-war Grand Prix nut - power sliding a virtual duplicate of one of the awesome Silver Arrows of the latter '30s Grand Prix era. Why the grainy image? Mysteriously, there is not one image of a Wheatcroft W125 sitting on the web, not even on the websites of the vendors who created it. Hence we use an Octane magazine scan. It's puzzling and quite likely the result of Mercedes-Benz taking a keen interest in projects "in clear contravention of our trademark rights."

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