I believe that the Ostermeyer molds and tooling were sold to Hooper and Company (of the Rolls Royce/Bentley fame). Their direct website is down, so I'm assuming they are no longer in business. The photos that they did have of their reproduction Gullwing were all from Ostermeyer's website/brochures. But you can find what was their site here:

http://givemegraphics.net/hooper/index.htm

One of their production cars was sold in January of this year in England. The listing is here:

http://www.classicdriver.com/fr/find/4100_results.asp?&dealerid=11031&lCarID=1700525

One of Ostermeyer's cars is for sale in St. Louis, MO for $165K (down from $186K one month ago)

http://www.hymanltd.com/search/Details.asp?stockno=2990&recordCount=64

It would seem that there should be a way of creating the molds and tooling for the various Gullwing specific parts (glass, brightwork, switches, etc) so that, as with the Ostermeyer cars, the parts are interchangeable with the real cars. While expensive to do, one would certainly have more of a market than just the kit builders to recoup costs.

Is this what the Brothers Mazza are planning to do? Additionally, will they offer the option of running a Mercedes engine in their cars? It would be nice to have a Gullwing that looks AND sounds like a Mercedes.

Thanks for all the VERY informative posts...

Robert

Stay tuned and they can answer you question.

CM

I see there being a couple of solutions - of course both are just a matter of money. As I've never built a kit car before, please tell me if I'm failing to consider anything here:

1.) Somebody (and I'm including myself in this) buys an Ostermeyer or real Gullwing and disassembles the essential parts to have the molds and dies made to start reproducing parts. Biggest complication to this is finding the right company in the right country to do it, and executing the reproductions with enough quality that the real gullwing shops will purchase stock from you. At the same time, parts would need to be priced in a way that the kit builders would be able to buy as well. Another consideration is whether or not Mercedes Benz would squash you for getting in the way of their parts business - if there is such a thing for the Gullwings.

2.) It looks like from the Mazza's photos, that they're using 190SL parts - switches, headlights, etc. I think this is a pretty good idea. If a kit builder were to purchase a derilict 190SL for $15K, what would prevent him/her from pulling the instruments, switches, bright work, various useable systems (if any) AND the transmission tunnel & VIN tag and then register the finished car as a rebodied 190SL? You could sell the rest of the 190 back to a parts facility to recoup some expenses and have a good deal of parts to use to build the gullwing. Would the switches, instruments, front bumper and grill (bumper and grill is interchangeable, right?) worth the expense? Additionally, would the VIN & registration be worth buying a whole 190SL? I know for what it takes to get a speciality car registered in CA, it might be (ignoring for a moment that you'd be destroying a classic car).

Any input would be appreciated as I consider the cost (and excuse) to purchase a real Gullwing to do something along these lines for a business. I'd happily defer to the Mazzas if they're already doing it.

Yes, parts are absolutely a critical part of making this happen. Without getting into detail, we do have a variety of sources for parts, including manufacturing some ourselves. It is also true that only a few of the 190 parts can be used. (Very thorough list you have, Jay!) We are not using parts from derelict cars, for reasons that were mentioned in Mr. Crotty's thread.

A bit of background: Hermann Quint began his business by purchasing a real 300SL and reverse-engineered his car from there. As I mentioned, we are using the molds, patterns and plans from his business as the basis for our cars. Our cars will be registered as specialty cars in Pennsylvania.

Hope this answers your questions. Thanks.

- Matt

Toney's parts are tied up in bancruptcy (again) this time in the island of Jersey off the English coast. So we can't expect much help there.
The Mazza Brothers, God bless them, have great intentions and I am sure are honorable people. However they are still bogged down in the body/frame part of the build. I have not heard what they intend to do for door latches, door hinges, trunk latches, grills, side molding, dash molding etc., etc. Their web sight is truly impressive. They make it clear that they are building their first wo cars now however it isn't apparent to the viewer which photos theyy are showing are from an original Gullwing and which are from someone elses reproduction.
Yes there are a few 190SL parts that can be used. I have a list for anyone interested. A good quality 190SL grill goes for $2,000 but at 20 feet you can tell it is not from a 300SL. That is but one example.

In order for someone to succed in the Gullwing replica buisness they will need a lot of financing and a really well thought out buisness plan. Even Tony Ostermeir despite his long success ran out of capital at some point.Starting out with a kit car would allow you to recoupe some of your investment as you went along. The only person doing that is Gil Lonecker. He unfortunately is undercapitalized and I would not even want to comment on his buisness plan on a public forum. He has however succeeded in destroying any credibility he has which I find terribly sad.

Greg

Where Do you buy a windshield for $ 5.000?
If you can get a GW windshield for 525,- € + shipping (from Berlin to the States) + tax.

Have a look at here: http://www.hk-engineering.com/ne/partshop/index.html

http://www.hk-engineering.com/

Bye James.

I'll let Matt continue to answer the specific parts questions/thoughts/ideas. We appreciate the benefit of the doubt displayed in this forum. Yes, we are keenly aware of the obstacles and do have plans to make sure we have a solid product. We have asked ourselves, Hermann, and other industry veterans all the questions raised in this forum. The challenges of making parts have changed dramatically in the last 10 years and we intend on utlizing as much of the new technologies to help us. We want to do this right the first time, not have a progression of quality increases. We will be concentrating on turnkeys (for many reasons), potentially offering kits by mid 2006. I'm not sure how the economics of the kits will turn out, as we need to get the first cars done and make an assessment at that time. My belief is that whatever the parts, bodies, and chassis costs become there will significant sweat equity achieved (by a kit purchaser) due to the turnkey value.

Are you able at this time to give us a ball park figure for your turnkey cars? I understand if you're not ready to do this yet. Assuming your production cars will be similar in quality to the Ostermeyer cars, it would be good to know what one could expect to spend.

Thanks,

Robert

however at HK engineering I found the following prices:

Windshield complete- $1,400
Rear Window complete- $1,800
opera window complete is $1,100 each
I couldn't get the numbers on the vent and door windows as not all of the parts are listed (unavailable?)

so thats $5,400 for 4 of the 8 windows lets just approximate another $5,00 for the other ones. $10,000 is about about 10% of the finished value. I can buy a body for about $10,000 or a frame for about $10,000. It like the old saying about the monkey who peed in the cash register "it starts to run into money"

Sorry if it seems like we're dodging parts questions, but in reality this is not the case. As you know, there is very little competition in the Gullwing replica market, but it IS out there. We are protecting our business interests by not naming all of our suppliers. We do have sources for ALL of the parts and they fall into the following categories:

- Major vendors of Gullwing parts, including HK Engineering and others
- Smaller vendors who are not currently prepared to make parts in quantity
- Local manufacturers, but currently small batches and nothing automated yet

As you mentioned, we're not ready to make kits or parts for these cars yet, but it's in the plan. Our current focus is to complete the first few cars, which will allow us to refine our processes. It would be great if we were in a position to sell parts, but we're just not ready yet. The CAD and CNC will come later. If we promised to deliver parts now, that would actually hurt our credibility since we can't deliver at this time.

I can also assure you that we won't be substituting cheap or flimsy parts: no Mylar strips and no fiberglass bumpers with chrome spray. We will be as authentic as possible where it makes sense and update where that makes sense. (An example: the originals used spring shocks to raise the doors. We are using gas shocks that look like the original
but provide more even and reliable lifting pressure)

We certainly understand the skepticism and we recommend that you take a "wait and see" approach with us as well. Thanks.

- Matt

Reguarding the Nitrogen gas struts. I put them on my car. It took me about 5 trips to NAPA to get it right. Its hard to do with an unfinished door as the weigth factor is important. They work well and can be easily covered with tube to make them look more original. The thing I didn't like was the black plastic mounting points on the end. Not very period or "teutonic" if you know what I mean. I replaced them with chromed heim joints I got from a Harley shop.
Untimately I removed the rear struts and installed 7/8" stainless steel pnuematic cylinders. I was a lot of work but fun too. Now the doors open and close at the touch of a button.

quote:

---

Someone interested in a ready to drive 300SL Gullwing from Gullwing Cars?

Car is finished in grey-blue metallic with light grey leather interior. Engine is a M110 with double camshaft and Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection. Coupled at the engine is a fourspeed stickshift from Mercedes-Benz.

Car has only done a near 10.000 miles and is in a immaculate condition. It is at the moment for sale in Europe.

---

Thanks!

quote:

---

Someone interested in a ready to drive 300SL Gullwing from Gullwing Cars?

Car is finished in grey-blue metallic with light grey leather interior. Engine is a M110 with double camshaft and Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection. Coupled at the engine is a fourspeed stickshift from Mercedes-Benz.

Car has only done a near 10.000 miles and is in a immaculate condition. It is at the moment for sale in Europe.

---

have a look at these pic´s.
300 sl Rodster build on a Pagode.

Bye James.

What is a Pagode in the US? a 230sl/280sl?

quote:

---

Hello Custom VW,

have a look at these pic´s.
300 sl Rodster build on a Pagode.

Bye James.

---

upss how come you don´t know the synonym of a 230 SL = Pagode?
Well anyhow see below. :-)

Bye James.

Greg

The forum has been quiet lately but we have been busy. We are still refining the body and chassis and expect to have a body on chassis in March. The R&D has taken longer than expected, but that's par for the course for this business.

Thanks for you interest and patience and stay tuned. I will post an update when we reach our next milestone.

- Matt

Matt has put it properly, we have been overwhelmed by the interest in our project. We, as we have said here, are as passionate about this car as anyone. We want to make sure that our recreation is something we can be proud of, something that makes us stand back and stare....just as we all have at the sight of an original.

That being said, we have gone through a painstaking process of making sure that all meets, and exceeds, expectations. Sure, we would have loved to have had a car done by now....but we've been open with all who have asked to visit and see where we are in the process. Those that have visited and spent time with us realize we are doing the right thing, the right process, and will be delivering a product that will speak for itself.

So, hang in there....we're almost there...and thanks for the interest!

John

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