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kitcarman

USA
69 Posts
Posted - March 15 2003 :  12:42:00 PM  Show Profile
If you're considering Specialty Auto Works (SAW) to do assembly/completion work for you, I urge you put that idea right out of your head! SAW builds replicas of '33/'34 Ford Vicky/coupe/cabriolet, Porshe 356.Speedster C, and Cobras that come from (Classic Motor Carriages/ Fiberfab / Inovative Street Beasts… and the list goes on and on out of south Florida. ) The reason for all the name changes of the manufacturer is because the kits they manufacture are complete crap and they have had so many complaints filed with the Florida Attorney General’s office they have had to keep reincorporating to stay one step ahead of the law.

SAW has had their share of complaints filed with the Tennessee Attorney General’s office as well. Some of SAW customer’s have had their engines blow up shortly after delivery of their car. Steve Lawling will lie that they were just "misunderstandings", but it is the TRUTH! It seems that SAW does just as poor a job of putting the engines together as the south Florida manufacturer does of building the kits. Both have the same customer service skills when you call to complain - “Bite me – we have your money sucker!”

meat

USA
992 Posts
Posted - March 15 2003 :  8:55:03 PM  Show Profile
Did ya miss the memo? Just kidding!

Everyone who considers getting any work done by this company should never take the word of just ONE forum member.

Take the word of two. stephenbl is Stephen B Lawing; and is allegedly the heir apparent of Stephen Lawing of SAW. He used to post here. Here's how the kid acts:

http://kitcars.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=595

Children emulate their parents. If this is how he acts, I can't imagine ever getting anything from SAW.

I posted (far more elloquently) on this thread:

http://kitcars.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=680

Your pal,
Meat.

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Admin

USA
206 Posts
Posted - March 16 2003 :  07:59:59 AM  Show Profile
kitcarman, did you have a bad personal experience? You don't mention anything specific that prompted this post.

Would like more details.

Will contact them.

Mitch


KitCars.com
MitchGo to Top of Page

kitcarman

USA
69 Posts
Posted - March 19 2003 :  10:34:22 AM  Show Profile
Me and probably every other customer of theirs. I find it very interesting the the Heading of my post got Don't Use Specialty Autoworks" got changed to Specialty Auto Works.

Would you care to comment on that?

quote:

kitcarman, did you have a bad personal experience? You don't mention anything specific that prompted this post.

Would like more details.

Will contact them.

Mitch


KitCars.com
Mitch


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moab


41 Posts
Posted - March 19 2003 :  6:33:27 PM  Show Profile

Hmmmm...

This guy seems pretty happy with his car, which Specialty built.

www.streetbeasts.com/reprogle


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meat

USA
992 Posts
Posted - March 20 2003 :  08:59:48 AM  Show Profile
quote:

Hmmmm...

This guy seems pretty happy with his car, which Specialty built.

www.streetbeasts.com/reprogle


Where does it say that? I didn't find anything in there that said that he was happy with Specialty Autoworks.

Your pal,
Meat.

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moab


41 Posts
Posted - March 20 2003 :  09:37:52 AM  Show Profile

Well, if you scroll down to the bottom of the page, past all the trophies and web sites and magazines that the car's been featured in, you'll see a link labeled More

There, the story is continued. I'll provide a direct link to make it easier:

http://www.streetbeasts.com/Gallery/reprogle/index.htm

There, I get the impression he's very happy with his car. I think quotes like these give me this impression:


"At last I have the car of my dreams and a special thanks to Streetbeast and Specialty Autoworks, Inc., in making this happen."

and:

"Rod credits Steve, Tom & Lisa at Specialty with a job well done, and..."


I don't know...maybe it's just me...

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meat

USA
992 Posts
Posted - March 20 2003 :  10:01:35 PM  Show Profile
I don't get that at all. He didn't say he was happy with it, he credits them with a job well done. I've had jobs 'well done' six months late, at far greater cost.

And besides, that quote is on the MANUFACTURER'S site. Since it's there, and it's Street Beasts, and I've already seen what kind of people Speciality Autoworks are, I don't believe a word of it.

At all. Period.

Show me that on an independent site of someone who's not in any way affiliated with either company and maybe I'll buy it. Until then, no sale, new guy.

Your pal,
Meat.

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meat

USA
992 Posts
Posted - March 20 2003 :  10:03:42 PM  Show Profile
New guy with only two posts on this thread, a yahoo email address and no further information.

Your pal,
Meat.

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Admin

USA
206 Posts
Posted - March 20 2003 :  10:04:36 PM  Show Profile
>Would you care to comment on that?

Sure, it is up to others if they use a certain company or not.

"Me and probably" is not specific enough to warrant a post of this nature. Anyone can post a message saying a company does business a certain way, lets hear what happened to you personally and when it happened.


KitCars.com
MitchGo to Top of Page

moab


41 Posts
Posted - March 20 2003 :  11:33:08 PM  Show Profile

I read this post with great interest. Unfortunately, nothing has been provided to substantiate these claim made against SAW.

You see, I've actually met Mr. Lawing, talked at length with him, and have seen several examples of his handiwork in person.

I met Mr. Lawing at last fall's Grand Run in Pigeon Forge, Tn. He brought four examples of his work to this show. The burgandy coupe pictured in the link I provided above, an orange '34 cabriolet, a Jaguar drop head coupe replica, and a work in progress, a '41 Willy's coupe.

All were excellent examples. The workmanship was superb. The paint was show quality. The interior was very nice. The chassis were detailed, and assembled with all new parts.

An interesting note: SAW installs Jasper remanufactured engines in their cars...Mr. Lawing does not assemble them himself. They also come with a 12 month warranty, as does the rest of the car. So, if there is any basis for the claims made by kitcarman, these engines would have been covered by the warranty, either by Jasper, or SAW.

I also spoke at length with Mr. Lawing. He is a very amiable, intelligent man. Certainly not the con artist he's been portrayed as here. SAW has also, according to their web site, been in business for over 20 years, with, they claim, over 300 cars built. Apparently not a "fly by night" operation.

I have been in the market for a street rod, and although I'm financially not ready to place my order with SAW yet, I have every intention of doing so. Yet, I'm always researching. Thus, my interest in this post. But, it appears there is nothing to substantiate these claims. If there is some credible, unbiased, first person experience kitcarman has to offer, I'm very interested. Otherwise, I'm sure everyone interested will come to their own conclusions about SAW.

"Truth is generally the best vindication against slander."
Abraham Lincoln


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The_Yak


66 Posts
Posted - March 22 2003 :  3:14:41 PM  Show Profile
hey everyone, i was just readin the last post, almost everyone knows, a show car has at least an extra $5000 in it, ive never done business with these people, but i do in depth remember the stephenbl incedent. if meats philosophy is true about poeple acting the same way as their parents, the we can deffinatly count or those show cars have a little extra added to them.

The_Yak

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moab


41 Posts
Posted - March 22 2003 :  7:08:26 PM  Show Profile

I asked Steve about that, and he told me that SAW doesn't have a display, demostrator car. The cars displayed at the show were not show cars, they were customer's cars. Two of the cars, the Jag and the burgandy coupe, were previously completed and delivered cars on loan to SAW for the show. One of the others, the orange cabriolet, was just completed, awaiting delivery, and the Willys was a work in progress.

Sorry, none of them were "ringers"

I can't believe you guys are so critical of a company that:
1) You've never had any contact with,
2) You've never seen any examples of their work,
3) You've never spoken to any of their customer.

What gives?

Can I expect the other opinions expressed on this forum to be based on so little facts?

Sorry, I'm a little dismayed
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meat

USA
992 Posts
Posted - March 23 2003 :  09:43:41 AM  Show Profile
quote:

I asked Steve about that, and he told me that SAW doesn't have a display, demostrator car. The cars displayed at the show were not show cars, they were customer's cars. Two of the cars, the Jag and the burgandy coupe, were previously completed and delivered cars on loan to SAW for the show. One of the others, the orange cabriolet, was just completed, awaiting delivery, and the Willys was a work in progress.

Sorry, none of them were "ringers"

I can't believe you guys are so critical of a company that:
1) You've never had any contact with,
2) You've never seen any examples of their work,
3) You've never spoken to any of their customer.

What gives?

Can I expect the other opinions expressed on this forum to be based on so little facts?

Sorry, I'm a little dismayed


I can't believe that - with 4 posts - you're an expert on how things have worked in the past in Florida. I've been around kit cars for right around 25 years. I've seen companies come and companies go.

And, more importantly, I've seen Stephen B. Lawing's kid post here and bad-mouth a kit that he (obviously) had never seen, and then attack everyone within keyboard distance. Quite frankly, I'm of the opinion that the acorn doesn't fall too far from the tree.

Why shouldn't anyone be critical of a company:
1. Whose on-line representative on this forum was obviously wrong, mis-informed, and out to attack others. I don't want anyone touching my car that doesn't know what they're doing. Stephenbl talked alot about a number of kits, badmouthing some, and talking about how others went together when he obviously had no idea what he was talking about. I don't want someone like that anywhere near my kit. So, yep, had plenty of contact with a representative of the company right here on this forum.

2. I've seen examples of what kind of people they are. There are alot of builders out there who can assemble a kit and make it look good. And not one of them attacks people online. I would never want to see an example of their work after seeing how they treat others. If their people skills are that poor, then I don't need to ever see their work.

3. Interestingly, that's not for lack of trying. I'm very good at doing the research, and as soon as I found out who Stephenbl was, I made quite an in-depth study that included trying to contact customers. I have never found one. Oh, sure, you're saying, there's all kinds of 'satisfied customers' on the Street Beasts website. Let me let you in on a little secret: I have contacted CMC as well as Street Beasts, and have received their info pack. I've also been subjected to their high-pressure sales tactics. They seem as if they're exactly the same company they used to be. And, that being the case, I also go some references from CMC once from their 'happy customers.' Their 'happy customers' were nothing more than builder shills. I expect the same thing from any CMC/Street Beasts/SAW referral.

And, in conclusion, I'm noticing that you only post here. I'm also noticing that I've never seen you post anywhere on any other board. Your adamant defense of SAW is a bit of a concern, Stephen.

In conclusion, to anyone reading this, it is my recommendation that you only use builders that have a strong reputation, and that you can get third-party referrals to. Never take the word of some customer referred to you by the company. There's a bit more to this whole thing than meets the eye.

Your pal,
Meat.

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paul lorenzo

USA
81 Posts
Posted - March 23 2003 :  12:13:16 PM  Show Profile
QUOTE:I can't believe that - with 4 posts - you're an expert on how things have worked in the past in Florida.

Since when does the amount of post make you or not make you an expert?

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Janezzz


68 Posts
Posted - March 24 2003 :  02:57:50 AM  Show Profile
Take a look at this ! (taken from the another website - Consumer Alert Section):

Saturday, 3 January 1998
Specialty Auto Works
proprietor Steve Lawing, Knoxville, Tennessee

If you're considering Specialty Auto Works to do assembly/completion work for you, I urge you first and foremost to contact Mike Cromwell of St. Louis, Missouri at (314).432-1066. Mike will be delighted to share with you his experience as a customer of Mr. Lawing and Specialty Auto Works...

3/99 It has recently come to my attention that Specialty Auto Works' prospective customers are being led to believe that the above unhappy former customer (Mike Cromwell) was just an aberration, not to be taken seriously. One caller even advised us that Steve Lawing told him "Mike Cromwell bought him a wrecked Cobra for him to try to fix." Sighhhhhh. Bear in mind that Tennessee's Attorney General intervened in Mike's behalf and compelled SAW to reimburse Mr. Cromwell... and not for "... a wrecked Cobra," but for the Cobra that Steve Lawing/Specialty Auto Works built for him.

And since we have the names of other equally-unhappy SAW customers on my database, here's another example of the complaints we've received about SAW: One SAW customer (of Fairfield, Connecticut) purchased his "Speedster C" through Mr. Lawing, after being advised that Lawing was a "preferred assembler" of the infamous Florida telepredator. To make a long story short, when Lawing shipped his car (months late), the brakes didn't work, the transmission wouldn't go into gear, the gelcoat finish was "wretched" and required a full refinishing & repainting; furthermore, the (SAW-installed) VW engine blew up shortly after delivery. In all, this customer had to spend over $5,000 to fix all those things that he had every reason to expect would be "right" when his car was delivered. He also complained that every time he sought Lawing's advice regarding how to best fix the sundry glitches his car displayed, the "solutions" Lawing gave him were invariably useless; furthermore, he never received any refund for all those additional expenditures.

Here you have, a third party opinion...

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meat

USA
992 Posts
Posted - March 24 2003 :  10:05:44 AM  Show Profile
quote:

Since when does the amount of post make you or not make you an expert?

The number of posts you make is far less significant than the timing and target of your postings.

If you'll notice, four-post boy has only ever posted on this thread, has only defended SAW, and his email is from yahoo. That, in and of itself, should send up all kinds of red flags. I wouldn't be suprised to see more one-post wonders pop up on this thread. It's a common - albeit a really, really stupid idea - to log on with different screen names to attempt to justify or defend one's opinion. The reason that it's not very bright is that it only serves to further destroy your position once the shill is uncovered.

I post on a bunch of different kit car forums. I have never seen 'moab' on any other forum. He's only ever posted on this one thread.

Now, maybe he's really lucky, but most legitimate first-time posters will not jump into a thread like this one, and they will not properly post links or pictures or other things that require proper use of forum code. moad did. That's a bit ... unusual.

So, taken individually, these things mean nothing. However, they've all appeared in this ONE thread by this one individual. I call that really questionable.

Hope that clears things up for your.

Your pal,
Meat.

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moab


41 Posts
Posted - March 24 2003 :  12:13:50 PM  Show Profile

Why are you so concerned about the number of post someone has? I'm not the only person on this thread that has just a few post, including the person who started this conversation.

I can also see which direction this is going, and I'm not interested. The only reason I replied to this thread is to find out what tragic experience kitcarman had with SAW. As it turns out, it appears that he hasn't. I also notice that he's dissappeared.

Janezzz is the only person here who's replied with anything relevant. I've also seen this...it's off the Curt Scott webpage. With Scott's reputation, I was looking for other's to back his claims up. I still haven't found it. All I have found is the one web site I linked to above in which the guy is thrilled with his car. I've also looked at the Better Business Bureau, and they don't have any complaints on file.

Since this is about to turn into a shouting match, I'll politely step out, and let you go at it.


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Janezzz


68 Posts
Posted - March 25 2003 :  01:37:17 AM  Show Profile
quote:
I've also seen this...it's off the Curt Scott webpage. With Scott's reputation, I was looking for other's to back his claims up.

What is wrong with Curt Scott and his reputation, which would cause us not to believe him (remember he is only the administrator of the webpage, not a "shagged" customer)?!? His web page has tons of testimonies, not just about SAW but about a bunch of other manufactures. There are real names of customers who got scamed and even their phone numbers, so anyone can contact them and check it out! I personally have never heard anything bad about him and Mr. moab, whoever he really is (Mr. Lawing perhaps?), has not represented any proof of why shouldn't we trust Mr. Cromwell about his complaint and Mr. Scott about publishing it ?
We are witnessing another act of badmouthing without any proof, again (please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain that I'm not).

Oh, and by the way Mitch (Admin), why did you change the name of Curt Scott's web page to "another website". I think it's important that other viewers of this thread are able to check the Consumer Alert Section there themselves. Don't tell me you are afraid of competition (not to worry about, this site rocks!)?

All you people have a nice day...


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meat

USA
992 Posts
Posted - March 26 2003 :  01:26:42 AM  Show Profile
quote:
Why are you so concerned about the number of post someone has? I'm not the only person on this thread that has just a few post, including the person who started this conversation.

I can also see which direction this is going, and I'm not interested. The only reason I replied to this thread is to find out what tragic experience kitcarman had with SAW. As it turns out, it appears that he hasn't. I also notice that he's dissappeared.

Janezzz is the only person here who's replied with anything relevant. I've also seen this...it's off the Curt Scott webpage. With Scott's reputation, I was looking for other's to back his claims up. I still haven't found it. All I have found is the one web site I linked to above in which the guy is thrilled with his car. I've also looked at the Better Business Bureau, and they don't have any complaints on file.

Since this is about to turn into a shouting match, I'll politely step out, and let you go at it.


Five posts, all on one thread. And I agree, I can see exactly the way this thread is headed, Stephen.

Curt Scott has a terrific reputation, and was very much involved in taking down CMC - who is now Street Beasts, and who SAW does building for.

Clearly, from your posts, it's obvious who has the better reputation. Curt has been doing great things for the kit car industry for many, many years. Every REPUTABLE kit car company knows and respects Curt Scott.

Your pal,
Meat.

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Admin

USA
206 Posts
Posted - March 27 2003 :  07:51:34 AM  Show Profile
Hi Janezzz!
He does not have any return links.


KitCars.com
MitchGo to Top of Page

dave114


195 Posts
Posted - March 27 2003 :  6:37:02 PM  Show Profile
Ok guys, lets have some sshhhh's please. First of all, as an outsider looking in, and reading this forum with great interest, I feel I need to make some comments. I'm sorry but I would take Meats word over some bloke who has just come online and decided that he knew better, without establishing a reputation in this forum.
Secondly, moab if your name is Stephen Lawling, then please leave before you make an even bigger dick of yourself, and if your reputation is anything to go by, then your screen name is probably a good reflection on the cars you build (mother of all bombs).
Now I have heard of SAW on other sites, as I have done my research, and have found more bad things about them, than good. So being a very intelligent and rational person I have made my decision, not to risk my very expensive dream car to someone I don't entirley trust!!
Now, if anyone disagrees with me, fine, thats your perogative and I hope you have a nice life, and your kit car does turn out fine. Your choice. I've already made mine!
Hopefully now we can end all this petty bickering and name calling, and get on with what this forum is all about, helping people with a common interest in Kit Cars!!
The End

Your mate in OZ

Dave

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kitcarman

USA
69 Posts
Posted - March 29 2003 :  11:23:28 PM  Show Profile
I hope this "little discussion" that has followed my original post "Never use SAW" which Mitch (Admin) changed to "Specialty Auto Works" has pointed out a few things that are useful to all kitcar enthusiasts.

1. SAW and CMC/Fiberfab/Streatbeast or whatever they are choosing to call themselves this year to stay ahead of the Florida Attorney General's office are not people to be trusted. This is not my opinion. Call the Tennessee or Florida attorney General's office and they will confirm every word of the negative comments.

2. When manufacturers resort to posting on this forum to cover there own ass, they are not people to be trusted - EVER!

3. When the admin of this site changes the title of my post to delete the "Don't Use" and chages another user's post to delete the word (removed), you have to wonder where this site's loyalties lie. Are they here for the benefit of us enthusiasts or some shady manufacturers. ARE YOU LISTENING MITCH!

4. Meat knows what the hell he is talking about. I have researched dozens of his posts dating back about a year. His posts are ALWAYS truthful and have the enthusiasts best interests at heart. MEAT this bud's for you.

5. There are pleanty of good manufacturers out there. Getting the right one will make all the difference in the world. REMEMBER YOU GET ONE CHANCE AND ONE CHANCE ONLY TO PICK THE RIGHT MANUFACTURER. After that your hard earned money and your happiness are in their hands.

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Admin

USA
206 Posts
Posted - March 31 2003 :  08:17:12 AM  Show Profile
kitcarman, as you know, I explained above why the topic was changed. We are all big boys & girls here who have the ability to make decisions ourselves.

I also explained why the link to the other site was removed, as it is has just been removed in your post above.

Also as you know, the thread could have been deleted completely from the get-go instead of revising the title, but it is not in the best interest of an open forum or KitCars.com to delete messages.

You've also been given plenty of time to report your personal experience with SAW but apparently have nothing to report.

Now that you've finally replied and had your say as the originator of this thread it is closed and left for anyone to read.

Thanks to everyone.


KitCars.com
MitchGo to Top of Page

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