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intercreations
45 Posts |
 Posted - February 14 2003 : 09:36:37 AM
I will be finishing a gt40 kitcar, turnkey, probably at the end of the summer and was wondering what kind of price tag i could put on it.
-professionally made
-original VW floorpan and modified chassis
-custom made t-roofs
-custom wheels
-very expensive, custom show quality paint job
-chevy corvair engine, changed from rear to mid-engine
-custom twin turbos, chromed
-webber dual intake carbs
-all chromed engine
-custom made headers
-custom intake
-engine was stored for 20 years, 250 km on rebuild
-custom firberglass firewall
-possible nitrous(havnt decided yet)
-etc.
-custom tail lights
-custom exhaust
-custom fuel cell
-exceptional sound system
-boomerang II security
-custom suspension
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - February 14 2003 : 09:48:48 AM
Who made the kit?Your pal,
Meat.
 
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intercreations
45 Posts |
Posted - February 14 2003 : 11:06:40 AM
Fiberfab
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - February 14 2003 : 7:33:02 PM
Fiberfab, eh? Cool! The Fiberfab Avenger/Valkyrie cars go for all kinds of prices. I've seem them for as low as $500 for a basic rolling car (I would have bought it...no, wait, I did buy it, but it never showed up! Gee, what a suprise!), and asking prices on ebay for some seriously ... interesting ... examples. Like this one, where the auction ended, but the reserve wasn't met: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1875666065&category=7251 Also, check out the Fiberfab/Valkyrie website: http://www.lathingstodo.com/AvenValk/ Post some pictures of your car (72 dpi), I'd like to see it. The Avenger and the Valkyrie are legacies from the past. They show where the industry came from, and how far it has progressed. I will always have a soft spot in both my heart and my head for these cars. Your pal,
Meat.
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wedgedriver
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - February 15 2003 : 08:09:54 AM
if you get no takers. i'll give you 100 bucks.no offense, thats what the wife said when i asked try like 28-32k nitrous would actually lower the price, the setup puts undue wear on the engine, even if you never used it, the new owner would be afraid of putting money into repairs soon. ha! |
intercreations
45 Posts |
Posted - February 17 2003 : 08:22:06 AM
Thanks a lot for the replies guys,I havnt got any pics yet because its not finished, but i'll post them as soon as it is farther along. thanks for that tip on nitrous too. Why is it that companies like CAV can sell their replicas for over 100 grand? What makes them so special? If anyone else has any comments or questions please post...
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - February 17 2003 : 09:26:52 AM
quote:
Thanks a lot for the replies guys,I havnt got any pics yet because its not finished, but i'll post them as soon as it is farther along. thanks for that tip on nitrous too. Why is it that companies like CAV can sell their replicas for over 100 grand? What makes them so special? If anyone else has any comments or questions please post...
Speaking as someone who's gearing up to produce a replica of the 60s racer, the reason that CAV can sell their replicas for $59,500 is because their cars are factory assembled, warrantied rollers, with original-style bodies, an original-style interior, and a stainless-steel original-style monocoque chassis. It's a completely different car than the Fiberfab offering. Not that there's anything at all wrong with the Fiberfab, I think it's a great car...but it's not a CAV, an ERA, a Roaring Forties, or even a Meaty40. Your car sounds very, very cool. Your pal,
Meat.
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intercreations
45 Posts |
Posted - February 17 2003 : 09:57:58 AM
but what about this site that has the ERA gt40s' for $110,000? http://www.erareplicas.com/gt/turnkey.htm
and to me it looks like nothing all that special for the base vehicle.
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - February 17 2003 : 10:37:01 AM
The ERA is an original-style body, with an original style interior, with an original-style gauge layout, and a custom chassis. It's nothing at all like a Fiberfab Avenger.The Fiberfab Avenger was a very nice car for it's time. The car bears only a passing resemblance to a GT40 MkIII, which is the street car made by Ford for the masses (this version of the GT40 was sold to seven (7) customers when it was new). It was designed to fit on a VW chassis, and was sold with little if any assembly instructions. Many of the cars were completed, many more were not. The cars pop up all the time for sale, and the selling price for these cars can go as high as $5,000. That's it. The reason for this is because it's a VW. You changed the engine, that's a good thing. However, you've still got a Avenger. The Valkyrie was the car that had the V8 and the custom tube chassis and was set up to use the ZF transaxle. People who are willing to pay upwards of $100K aren't looking for an Avenger, they're looking for originality. The Avenger front is completely wrong, it has too many headlights, the fenders have a sharp crease and the shape of the windscreen is wrong. The rear end doesn't open correctly, the fenders on the rear are too sharp, the shape of the rear is incorrect. The wheelbase is wrong, the height is wrong, and the interior is ugly. The seats are wrong, the steering box is wrong, and the setup is torsion bar, rather than a fully adjustable upper/lower A-arm assembly. The bottom of the car is not flat. The doors are shaped wrong. The list goes on. What you need to realize is that your car is NOT in any way shape or form a GT40. Period. The technology is all wrong. The Fiero rebody to make the car look like a GT40 is more accurate than your car will ever be, and it's far more technologically advanced. Make no mistake: your car sounds very cool. But you need to also realize that it's not a GT40, it'll never be a GT40, and you'll never get anywhere near a GT40 price for your car. It's not powered by Ford. That's always going to be the kicker. Alot of sins can be overlooked if it's powered by Ford when it comes to GT40s. I'm not trying to tell you that your car isn't worth anything. I like your car. But you cannot continued to compare it to the CAV, ERA, GTD, Roaring Forties, or any other 'real' GT40 replica. My car, as great as it's going to be, is not going to be compared to those cars, either; and mine - externally - is going to be spot-on to the original car. Your car is not, will not, and cannot be compared to a GT40. Because it's not a GT40. End of story. If you want to know how much your car is worth, then watch ebay. The cars sell for between $500 and $10K for a Valkyrie - not an Avenger. I'm trying to give you an accurate representation of what your car is worth. It's not worth a GT40 price. It never will be. And a nice GT40 replica can be picked up for anywhere between $30K and $60K. Your pal,
Meat.
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intercreations
45 Posts |
Posted - February 17 2003 : 10:44:35 AM
thanks a lot for clarifying that, i just couldn't understand it but now I do.
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - February 17 2003 : 11:13:09 AM
quote:
thanks a lot for clarifying that, i just couldn't understand it but now I do.
No, I don't think you do. I would imagine that you think I'm completely wrong. Which I have no problem with. But I really do like your car. You just need to base your expectations on reality. Here's the reality: http://www.gt40s.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001034 Who's the guy defending the Avenger against the GT40 guys? Oh, that's right, it's me. That is an example of how the GT40 community feels about the Avenger. They're not over fond of the Lone Star or the ASPP offerings, either. Here's more on the pseudo-40s:
http://www.gt40s.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000688
http://www.gt40s.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000314
http://www.gt40s.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001020
http://www.gt40s.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000101
http://www.gt40s.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000865 Your pal,
Meat.
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intercreations
45 Posts |
Posted - February 17 2003 : 12:45:53 PM
I didn't realize how many people were really against all the original kitcars. What if I changed a lot of the lines and dimensions on the car would that make a difference, or would people still not want to really buy it? And how am I going to sell my car for 10,000, like the black one you posted when all the parts and labour from other people will cost me more than that?
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intercreations
45 Posts |
Posted - February 17 2003 : 1:06:22 PM
An why didnt fiberfab make the car look more like the gt40. Like the oversized fenders, front lip, etc...
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - February 17 2003 : 4:42:35 PM
There aren't that many people 'against' the older kits, but there are fewer people out there that can appreciate the classics. They don't see the cars for what they are.What I would recommend would be to make sure that you market it to the the right people. The GT40 guys will generally not appreciate the work you've put into the car. However, there are plenty of people that will. The best thing you can do is get that car into a magazine, like Which Kit or Kit Cars or some other magazine dedicated to kit cars. Get as much information as you can about the car together, and have the magazine photograph it professionally. I don't know if you've picked a color for it yet, but to get in the magazine, you'll have to paint it a brighter color...like a red or some similar color. Dark colors don't always show up, and the magazines are reluctant to put these cars on the cover, and don't usually do anything other than a single B&W picture over a short blurb about the old kit. Color is always the hardest choice. You have to figure what someone else is going to want out of the car. Very few people will want a yellow car, but if you look at many of the magazine covers, that's the color that's almost always on it. Maybe a Wimbleton White with some removeable decals for the photo shoot. Lots of places sell Avery or 3M pressure sensitve vinyl that cn transform your car from vanilla to race car. I wanted to sell a car of mine once. A plain jane Mustang GT convertible that wasn't any different than every other one out there. To make it stand out to the 'younger' set, I spent 25 bucks and about two hours with a squeegie and a spray bottle and came up with this: 
I sold the car, and got exactly what I was asking for it without any bartering...And I wasn't selling cheap, either. If you want, I'll even help you write the article, and then you can submit it. Once your car is in a magazine, it magically becomes a "magazine" car and is worth significantly more than you'd think it should be. You also get a whole lot more exposure. What you might want to also consider would be to sell the car on Ebay. Wider audience, high possibility of sale. Get some pictures of the car, the interior, and the engine compartment. Post them here. I'll help you in any way I can...just don't sell your car as a GT40; you'll be marketing to the wrong audience. Your pal,
Meat.
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intercreations
45 Posts |
Posted - February 18 2003 : 08:05:00 AM
thanks,
it won't be awhile till I finish it but i'll keep you posted on what i'm doing to it, and anything else. And no, I haven't picked a colour yet...I was thinking something bright with a colour change in it.
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kitkar
126 Posts |
Posted - February 19 2003 : 5:35:01 PM
quote:
Like this one, where the auction ended, but the reserve wasn't met:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1875666065&category=7251
I e-mailed this guy about his car. It is very nice. I can't remember the details but I will see if I can dig up the response and post it later. Rick Lord
http://www.kitkar.com |
paul lorenzo
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - February 19 2003 : 11:32:06 PM
Meat, I bought that avenger on ebay for 1000. I didnt meet the reserve, but he sold it to me anyways. He didnt bother cleaning it at all. Im talking about the avenger that you said fell off a tree. After vacumming for days, I realized that the previous owner was a big bull****ter. The car has some potential in it for an avenger, and its got the 914/bus and the proper reinforcement for that motor. It also been braced at the bottom as well as a full rowcage inside. I have been around vws all my life, so I got it running right away. Its a car I am going to play with and make a video on custom fiberglass work. I am thinking about cutting off the top, and grafting a f355 front end I got laying around. Some Mr2 side scoops are going in also. I bought a gt90 model to give me ideals for the back end. I am going to modernize the car a bit. Fortunatly the interior was just redone, so it looks good. The glass is intact and it needs seals. I heard the front winnshield is covair, the rear glass is mustang 2+2. but I am not sure what the door glass is. Help me out here if you can because I need all the guts. I havent touched it recently because Im trying to sell Warner Bros my version of the batcycle Im building. I really dont care if I mess this car up by cutting the top off, but its just an ideal for now. I like doing crazy %$## like that.
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rdecker28
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - February 21 2003 : 10:17:18 AM
Way to go meat. Finally someone who knows the difference between kit and turnkey minus cars.I work for an exhotic car shop and get to work on the real toys that you guy's are talking about. We also get a large number of kit cars becauce many shops wont work on them.I personaly have built/ assembled cav gt40's and find them to be an acceptional car.I have worked on two authentic mk1 gt40"s and found that the cav cars to be somuch better.Advanced technology, better materials etc. make this possible.Kit cars , and I am not bashing them, steel from other cars to make a lookalike. Performance is By nomeans anywhere near comperable.They are at best a good looking drive by car. Good luck to all car nuts no matter what your flavor is. Build what you can afford and to heck with what other people thing. If it's what you want, build it.
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - February 21 2003 : 2:05:27 PM
quote:
Way to go meat. Finally someone who knows the difference between kit and turnkey minus cars.I work for an exhotic car shop and get to work on the real toys that you guy's are talking about. We also get a large number of kit cars becauce many shops wont work on them.I personaly have built/ assembled cav gt40's and find them to be an acceptional car.I have worked on two authentic mk1 gt40"s and found that the cav cars to be somuch better.Advanced technology, better materials etc. make this possible.Kit cars , and I am not bashing them, steel from other cars to make a lookalike. Performance is By nomeans anywhere near comperable.They are at best a good looking drive by car. Good luck to all car nuts no matter what your flavor is. Build what you can afford and to heck with what other people thing. If it's what you want, build it.
I may or may not necessarily agree with you. The CAV is an excellent example of a turnkey-minus kit, in that it comes completely assembled, which is different than the GTD car, which doesn't. The original GT40s were amazing cars, and used the best technology of the day. Which brings up another point. Kit cars usually don't steal anything. They fill a niche in the marketplace between what an original car is worth, and what an average citizen is willing or able to pay to fulfill a dream. It is my considered opinion - after years and years of being around kit cars and their manufactured counterparts - that the kit cars are far better at 'building the legend' of the car they occasionally replicate than the original car is. The reason for that is simple; most of the cars replicated are never ever driven, so the only way an observer would actually get to see the car in it's natural environment (the road is the natural environment for a car...a museum or a environmentally controlled bubble is not where a car EVER belongs), is if they were to see a replica. A great example of this is Miami Vice. Until that television show came out, the only place the common man could have seen a ******* 365GTB Spyder would have been in the movie Gumball Rally. I personally feel that companies like ******* and Lamborghini and others do a huge disservice to their companies by ruthlessly attacking the replicators. The replicas can do nothing but make the legend of the original car grow. It is my personal belief that if a company like ******* were to give an 'endorsed by *******' dealy to a kit car manufacturer, it would make them even more money, as the original cars would be even more valuable because people knew what they were (Shelby says he attempted to do this by having a Shelby Approved Cobra replica, and I have it on excellent authority that a number of companies stepped up to the plate. But as soon as they did, he balked). As an example, before anyone read the thread on the ******* Spyder California, I seriously doubt that more than a very small minority would have been able to tell the difference between the LWB and the SWB cars. Now they know. There's an old racer-dude saying, "There's nothing slower than last year's race car." And that is why some of the most beautiful and aggressive cars ever made fell by the wayside. If it weren't for governing bodies like FIA, we would only ever see some of the old cars in grainy black & white film. The biggest issue with a race car, of course, is that it is a purpose-built machine, and was never meant to stand up to the greatest threat: time. It only had to run for a quarter of a mile or race around for 24 hours on a track. Drive it for a year, cannabilize it for some of it's parts if it survived, then ditch the carcass. These cars were only made to survive a very abbreviated lifespan. Going back to the Cobra replica example, the tube chassis of the original car wasn't all that resilient. It would twist and flex with every gunning of the engine, and every application of torque. By and large, the replica cars - some of which use the original-style chassis, and some of which use a square tube, monocoque or semi-monocoque - are light years beyond the original cars as far as the chassis design, suspension, body construction, et al goes. You'll find that the replicas - the full replicas, not the rebodies - can, and quite often do - outperform the original cars in every category, and in every application. Sure, there are cars that are simple rebodies - like the dune buggies, *******/Fieros or even the Avenger - that simply replace the body of one car with an aftermarket unit, and these will always have a place in the replica world. I built a 917, a Bathtub Speedster and a couple of Daytonas that were mostly-simple rebodies. I have no problem with any of them. In every case, by the time I was done with the car it would out-perform the car it was based on, and in most cases out-performed the original car in the big three areas: driveability and reliability and cost, which is all I would ever ask out of any car. ...plus they all looked cool. Even the metalflake brown, second hand 917. Your pal,
Meat.
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kitkar
126 Posts |
Posted - February 23 2003 : 02:02:38 AM
I finally looked up the response I received from the seller of that GT40 kit on ebay. I've never heard of the company that makes the body. Here's his response:"The body was made 35 yrs ago by an outfit called A&A plastics they made 35 to
my knowledge and went out of business, it didnt look like this when i got it,
it was close to being totally distroyed (entire thing weighed less then 50
lbs) but i had allready built the car and was looking for what body i wanted
on it and as you can see kinda modified it as i went along, the shape of
which kinda resembles a real modified GT40 that was run a few years after La
Mans." Rick Lord
http://www.kitkar.com |
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KitCars.com Forums
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Aardvark Solutions
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(33 views)
gt40, everyone please reply
