| Author |
 Topic  |
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YEM
62 Posts |
 Posted - November 04 2003 : 09:45:27 AM
what are the laws and restrictions on cars? i.e. mandatory bumpers? certain dimensions? certain wieght? Basically i want to know the list of rules that prevents someone from putting an Formula 1 racer on the road. I am thinking of building a one-off F1 type car, simolat to the indystreet, but more accurate. Thanks in advance. |
meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - November 04 2003 : 11:46:06 PM
quote:
YEM wrote:
what are the laws and restrictions on cars? i.e. mandatory bumpers? certain dimensions? certain wieght? Basically i want to know the list of rules that prevents someone from putting an Formula 1 racer on the road. I am thinking of building a one-off F1 type car, simolat to the indystreet, but more accurate. Thanks in advance.
It depends on which state you're in...and sometimes even which county. The specs are usually in the DMV books. Your pal,
Meat. 
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New-Kit
53 Posts |
Posted - November 08 2003 : 08:08:32 AM
Buttom line You have to lie. Best way is buy a beater transfer the vin# onto your kitcar and then register the kitcar as the donor car. Next cut-up and destroy the donor car. All nice and legal.New Kid
On The Block |
meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - November 08 2003 : 09:34:39 AM
quote:
New-Kit wrote:
Buttom line You have to lie. Best way is buy a beater transfer the vin# onto your kitcar and then register the kitcar as the donor car. Next cut-up and destroy the donor car. All nice and legal.New Kid
On The Block
Absolutely totally incorrect. A VIN number is assigned to a specific car and cannot at an time ever be transferred to another vehicle. It is illegal to reuse a VIN number at any time, on any car, in any part of North America. Period. If you do this, your car will be impounded. New-Kit, you have made a number of posts which have been deleted. If you continue down this path, with posts like this, you will not be allowed to post here. Consider this your last warning. Your pal,
Meat.
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New-Kit
53 Posts |
Posted - November 08 2003 : 6:21:09 PM
meat Sorry to disagree with ya But that is what most of the kitcars owners have done in my area and all the kitcars are insured and legalNew Kid
On The Block |
meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - November 08 2003 : 9:29:28 PM
quote:
New-Kit wrote:
meat Sorry to disagree with ya But that is what most of the kitcars owners have done in my area and all the kitcars are insured and legal
Disagree with me all you want to; it is illegal to transfer VIN numbers. I'm quite sure that you do not know any kit owners in your area. And your statement is patently untrue: a kit car with a VIN number that does not belong to it is NOT properly insured and it is ILLEGAL to own such a vehicle. Your pal,
Meat.
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New-Kit
53 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2003 : 1:36:51 PM
Once again I like to thank-you for keeping this thread-alive only because this is a very important question. Once again I will agree on your position of legality or should I say bending the rules. Bottom line is this You or any-one else can not build a car and place it on a public road unless it passes all of the transportation laws or refer to them what you will, having said this there is no way a small shop can submit test vehicles and the $$millions of dollars required to have such testing completed.So there are two ways of building and placing a kitcar on the road and in both cases you will be bending the laws of the land.
One-way is to use a known donor car and modifying the panels to make it appear like a car of (your choice) But note you can not modify the power-train or any safety features particular to that year, example a 1985 Fiero must conform to the 1985 safety and pollution laws. In this example the registration and vin# is a 1985 Fiero. If a cop stops you if he feels the car is modify be-on the original set-up he has the power to seize the car and suspend your wrights to drive the car until it is fully inspected. The second way and this is the most illegal is to buy a turn key kitcar built from the ground-up “Problem” here is this car has never passed any safety testing. So how do you register such a car, well there is only one way, you buy let's say a 1980 Camaro you remove the vin# and stick it on the kitcar, Now you destroy the 1980 Camaro and note there is no victim here because nothing is stolen. Now the problem here is if a cop pulls you over and if he decides it is much to modified he has the power to pull your plates until you have the said vehicle tested to conform to a 1980 Camaro. Is the above legal no are you a criminal no. The other problem is getting insurance. If you lie to your insurance company they do not give a dam until you get yourself in a jam and of course that is when they will deny your coverage. Hope this helps More to Come
New Kid
On The Block
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2003 : 7:49:33 PM
quote:
New-Kit wrote:
Once again I like to thank-you for keeping this thread-alive only because this is a very important question. Once again I will agree on your position of legality or should I say bending the rules. Bottom line is this You or any-one else can not build a car and place it on a public road unless it passes all of the transportation laws or refer to them what you will, having said this there is no way a small shop can submit test vehicles and the $$millions of dollars required to have such testing completed.So there are two ways of building and placing a kitcar on the road and in both cases you will be bending the laws of the land.
One-way is to use a known donor car and modifying the panels to make it appear like a car of (your choice) But note you can not modify the power-train or any safety features particular to that year, example a 1985 Fiero must conform to the 1985 safety and pollution laws. In this example the registration and vin# is a 1985 Fiero. If a cop stops you if he feels the car is modify be-on the original set-up he has the power to seize the car and suspend your wrights to drive the car until it is fully inspected. The second way and this is the most illegal is to buy a turn key kitcar built from the ground-up “Problem” here is this car has never passed any safety testing. So how do you register such a car, well there is only one way, you buy let's say a 1980 Camaro you remove the vin# and stick it on the kitcar, Now you destroy the 1980 Camaro and note there is no victim here because nothing is stolen. Now the problem here is if a cop pulls you over and if he decides it is much to modified he has the power to pull your plates until you have the said vehicle tested to conform to a 1980 Camaro. Is the above legal no are you a criminal no. The other problem is getting insurance. If you lie to your insurance company they do not give a dam until you get yourself in a jam and of course that is when they will deny your coverage. Hope this helps
Yes, it is a very important question. And yes, you're again quite wrong. Using the State of California as an example, I'd like to go over your post. - "...You or any-one else can not build a car and place it on a public road unless it passes all of the transportation laws or refer to them what you will, having said this there is no way a small shop can submit test vehicles and the $$millions of dollars required to have such testing completed..." Not exactly. You can only put a car on the road if it meets the criteria established in the Vehicle code and Health and Safety codes, which are enforced by the DMV, CHP, and BAR. Small shops operate on different levels than manufacturers, and small shops are able to get all kinds of waivers. No small shop in California has to submit test vehicles or spend millions of dollars to have "such testing" completed. Saleen, for example, is a small shop, they were able to have many of their cars - including the S7 - waived on through the process.
- "...So there are two ways of building and placing a kitcar on the road and in both cases you will be bending the laws of the land..." No. There is ONE way: the right way. Anything else and you run the risk of criminal prosecution and jail time.
- "...One-way is to use a known donor car and modifying the panels to make it appear like a car of (your choice) But note you can not modify the power-train or any safety features particular to that year, example a 1985 Fiero must conform to the 1985 safety and pollution laws. In this example the registration and vin# is a 1985 Fiero. If a cop stops you if he feels the car is modify be-on the original set-up he has the power to seize the car and suspend your wrights to drive the car until it is fully inspected..." No. Modifying the body panels of a "known donor car" causes it to fall under section 580 of the Vehicle Code - just like a custom chassis kit car does. You can modify the drivetrain and safety features to your heart's content as long as the car continues to meet the criteria required for safety. Further, the VIN number of the "known donor car" is no longer valid; a VIN number will be issued by the proper licensing agency when you go to register the car.
- "...The second way and this is the most illegal is to buy a turn key kitcar built from the ground-up “Problem” here is this car has never passed any safety testing. So how do you register such a car, well there is only one way, you buy let's say a 1980 Camaro you remove the vin# and stick it on the kitcar, Now you destroy the 1980 Camaro and note there is no victim here because nothing is stolen. Now the problem here is if a cop pulls you over and if he decides it is much to modified he has the power to pull your plates until you have the said vehicle tested to conform to a 1980 Camaro..." No. Absolutely and COMPLETELY untrue and totally illegal. Your car would be siezed and you WILL go to jail for 10 - 20 years (five years, in reality). It is against FEDERAL and STATE law to take the VIN number from ANY car and put it on another car. Ever. Period. End of line. Do not pass go, go directly to jail. This is the WORST advice ever. Do not under any circumstances EVER switch a VIN number. EVER.
- "...Is the above legal no are you a criminal no. The other problem is getting insurance. If you lie to your insurance company they do not give a dam until you get yourself in a jam and of course that is when they will deny your coverage. Hope this helps YES! THE ABOVE IS ILLEGAL AND MAKES YOU A CRIMINAL. Do not under any circumstances listen to the above advice about committing a FEDERAL crime. The only reason I am posting this is to make sure that everyone reads it and understand that what "New-Kit" is describing is an illegal activity, and will make you subject to arrest and conviction, and your vehicle - according to section 10751(b) of the California vehicle code - will be impounded until "destroyed, sold, or otherwise disposed of under the conditions as provided in an order by the court having jurisdiction."
If anyone has any questions about how to register their car, they are strongly urged to contact their local DMV, local kit owners, or even ME and I will do my best to help you out. Do not under any circumstances take any of the above advice offered by New-Kit, or you WILL go to jail and you WILL lose your car. Your pal,
Meat. |
iwannaviper
Australia
47 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2003 : 9:22:19 PM
Well things certainly are complicated over there in the U S of A.In Australia, whenever you modify a vehicle (eg, using 225 tires instead of 215) you need to get a certified report stating that your vehicle complies with all Australian Design Rules for the year of manufacture, which, as stated in my other thread, includes things like chassis tortional rigidity. Kit cars are classified as Individually Constructed Vehicles and recieve an new VIN when registered for the first time. This is also the way to personally import vehicles. Basically in Oz, you work your car, do it properly, get your bit of paper and everything is fully legit and legal- even if you've bribed the engineer to pass it, the buck falls back on him and your car is still legal.
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2003 : 9:54:23 PM
quote:
iwannaviper wrote:
Well things certainly are complicated over there in the U S of A.In Australia, whenever you modify a vehicle (eg, using 225 tires instead of 215) you need to get a certified report stating that your vehicle complies with all Australian Design Rules for the year of manufacture, which, as stated in my other thread, includes things like chassis tortional rigidity. Kit cars are classified as Individually Constructed Vehicles and recieve an new VIN when registered for the first time. This is also the way to personally import vehicles. Basically in Oz, you work your car, do it properly, get your bit of paper and everything is fully legit and legal- even if you've bribed the engineer to pass it, the buck falls back on him and your car is still legal.
Naah. Not difficult at all. You build it, you get it inspected, you register it. You can change tires and wheel sizes any time you want to and it doesn't require a reinspection. And it's easy to import vehicles as well. Your pal,
Meat.
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iwannaviper
Australia
47 Posts |
Posted - November 10 2003 : 2:18:19 PM
So why the discussion on swapping VIN plates and such? All sounds a little over the top to me, but I'm not in that industry so I wouldn't know really.In Oz it is illegal firstly to remove Compliance Plates from a vehicle- written off or not- and a criminal offence to provide fraudulent details regarding vehicle compliance. You can go to gaol.
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meat
USA
992 Posts |
Posted - November 10 2003 : 5:30:03 PM
quote:
iwannaviper wrote:
So why the discussion on swapping VIN plates and such? All sounds a little over the top to me, but I'm not in that industry so I wouldn't know really.In Oz it is illegal firstly to remove Compliance Plates from a vehicle- written off or not- and a criminal offence to provide fraudulent details regarding vehicle compliance. You can go to gaol.
I only responded to the post. It's illegal to swap VIN numbers here as well. Jail time, vehicle impounding, etc. The only reason I responded was to point out that what was being discussed was completely against the law, and shouldn't EVER be done. Your pal,
Meat.
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Hollywood2311
39 Posts |
Posted - July 15 2004 : 03:45:14 AM
quote:
quote:
YEM wrote:
what are the laws and restrictions on cars? i.e. mandatory bumpers? certain dimensions? certain wieght? Basically i want to know the list of rules that prevents someone from putting an Formula 1 racer on the road. I am thinking of building a one-off F1 type car, simolat to the indystreet, but more accurate. Thanks in advance.
It depends on which state you're in...and sometimes even which county. The specs are usually in the DMV books. Your pal,
Meat.
Is there a way to access these books online? I've looked on NC's DMV site several times, but they don't seem to have much detailed information there. Just stuff on custom license plates, registration, and insurance. Thanks for any help!
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stormbringer
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - July 15 2004 : 1:48:22 PM
I have not been able to find any of the rules on the web, my biggest concern is with the minimum weight requirements if there are even any, my riot is looking to spec out around 1100 pounds or so and I can't imagine that they would allow that through a inspecion. So I built I on top of a VW chassie with a good vin, but then agian the motor and tranny matches that year for the time being. It's not to hard to get a homebuilt car through the books in california, as long as you give a realistic view of what the car is worth so they can tax you, and follow the basic vechile laws that they have on the books your good to go. Only thing that stinks is figuring out exactly what you need to do at the DMV and waiting the requisite time for the slow wheels of the DMV to turn. Storm, who has yet to walk a kit car through the DMV that was entirely home constructed, but will somehow get a 550 through when some garage space clears up. 88 Mera GTS. (Sunnny Day Car)
~97 Thunderranch Riot (Drivable, but no seats)
72 914 (Show car)
04 F140 Lariat. (Dump truck/People Mover) 01 S2000
03 Vintage Speedster |
drjoe63
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - August 11 2004 : 9:21:17 PM
in alot of cases with getting cars registered you can apply for a homade car title the state patrol will come out and inspect the car to see that its safe and they will give you or send you a tile. you might have to list how it was made and what cars you made it from but in my opinion its the most legal way to get your car titled.
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Roaces
38 Posts |
Posted - September 11 2005 : 10:51:40 PM
Ok. I had to join this forum just to comment on this. Ive been thinking of a homebuilt for a while. I live in Wisconsin and have studied the laws of the land, Read Trans 149 and Trans 305. You can find the original pdfs online, just search "Trans 149" for example. Ok, here is the short and skinny. You build the vehicle, You need to establish ownership of all costly parts. Get it inspected. If it passes, you get plates and everything right away. You are required to have, Headlights, Turn signals, Stop lights, reverse lights, Hazard lights, Licsense plate lights, A windsheild, a Rear view mirror, 1 to 2 side veiw mirrors, Bumpers (comperable height and width to year you build car), the car needs to be secure (Door or ignition locks), Windsheild wipers, Functional washer fluid squirters, Windsheild Defroster (front), an exhaust system that wont burn people, Brakes on every tire, a horn, spedometer, odometer, seat belts.... phew, that about covers it for wisconsin. (Oh yeah, Emissions similar to the year you build it).
As far as indy style stuff, You can have a car without doors. You will need fenders for the wheels. But... there is a provision about "Projecting items" that they could maybe deny you on. There is no set low weight limit.
New-kit> No disrespect, but taking the vin idea is stupid. If you get in a crash, your insurance company has legal right to deny you coverage. Meat> I dont know anything of the Cali laws, but for saftey, I think its at inspectors discression to pass you or not in Wisconsin. Thanks for reading my horridly long post - Adrien
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pantera
USA
310 Posts |
Posted - September 12 2005 : 1:49:03 PM
If they alow 800hp Supras on the streets and other stupidass modified cars then i don't see why they wouldnt alow a kitcar.why are repilcas so expensive?! |
Hollywood2311
39 Posts |
Posted - December 30 2005 : 6:41:30 PM
Here in NC, I don't think fenders are manditory. I've seen "dune buggy" style cars on the road that are nothing more than a rollcage, engine, tires/wheels, and they are fully licensed & registered vehicles. Now, I'm not sure what year those buggys were registered as (they looked kind of old), but I know that fender-less cars do exist and are street legal in one way or another (in NC at least).
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jwdrew22
USA
38 Posts |
Posted - March 07 2006 : 8:21:17 PM
Ok everyone, I know this is an old post but I have a question. Still pertaining to vehicle laws. I have been researching into making quads (four-wheelers) into street legal vehicles for about 6 months now. I live in Oklahoma and in my state they have abolished all vehicle inspections. Which is a blessing and a curse. Your can run your car with open pipes (watch out for cops), but it also allows idiots to drive around with bald tires and parts falling off their cars. Anyway, Europe welcomes quads on the streets over there. There pics on the internet of them with turn signals mirrors, DOT approved tires, etc. Here in the states it's a big no-no to try and register a vehicle with a "off-road" title, which is what my quad has. I went to a local tag agent and they were kind enough to place some calls while I was there. In the state of Oklahoma you must add all the proper equipment, mirrors, signals, etc. and then submit the title and all receipts for the parts to the OHC (Oklahoma Highway Commission). I haven't tried this yet, because I'm pretty sure I'll spend about $1,000 on the parts I need only to have them shoot it down. SO, if I can register my quad as a homebuilt vehicle, who's to say it's offroad??? Just like Hollywood2311 says, they have dune buggy style cars on the road there.
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n/a
37 Posts |
Posted - March 08 2006 : 2:45:36 PM
My 2 cents:1. Don't register a homebuilt car in CA. The laws are all screwed up with the "double taxation". Talk to a hot rod builder in CA if you need to know about this. in CA, there are vehicle code for minimum ground clearances and vertical height of you lights from the ground. I imagine its the same for other parts of the car. Also, registered "off-road vehicles" can't legally drive on city streets unless they are modified to meet street car requirements. The state recently outlawed the kits that make off-road cycles street legal (quads come under this law as well). Chances are they will be doing the same for cars.
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motor vehicle laws
